Are you a Pirate?

[Pakage]

So..

 

whats your stance and why?

 

did you ever used to pirate music back in the napster days?

 

whats so different about downloading a TV series with no ads in it and downloading a tune?

 

there are many unanswered ethical, moral and possibly religious questions on this topic and i need resolution!

 

personally, i used to download music illegally back in the day. I had stacks, but it was mainstream stuff like eminem etc.. that would have made millions upon millions of dollars already so i didnt really feel too bad about ripping it for free. Even in those days i made an effort to never download NZ music and even actively pursue purchasing it.

 

I also admit i have downloaded a few tunes off soulseek when i first got into dnb.. but now i wouldnt dream of it. Ive spent thousands on my vinyl collection and many thousands more on dj equipment and production gear. If i need to hear a tune before it comes out, either myspace or the forthcoming section of the online record stores seems to suffice and let me judge a tune before ordering it.

 

what do you do? what do you think?

[Teret]

brillant topic idea, like you, I use to download alot of metal before i was into dnb, back then i thought napster was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

As for DnB, i download a heap of mixes but thats all legit i do have a few burnt mix Cds that Ive got off mates who have the real thing. I justify burning that by the fact that i wouldnt have bought them, had i not been given a copy. for example the lastest was Nightlife 3, and also like you I am totally against downloading any NZ Music or generally any music where the Artist is genuinely trying to forge a living off it.

[Turbo Custard]

I download a wee bit of music these days - but tbh i buy a bit too.. i usually use downloaded music to check out stuff im not sure if ill like - ie i just downloaded an album by chamillion haha and when i get round to listening to it - if i like it ill go buy his other stuff. Its like try before you buy

 

I also think that if you're gonna be a dj and play tunes out and get paid for it then you really should pay for the tunes you play.

 

Wheres the option for downloading legally Pack ! ??

[Teret]

yea, have to add that for the music Ive downloaded illegally it has then influenced my buying of alot of music by the same artist

[Dold]

Havn't downloaded any music since the napstar days. Much prefer to buy the album and give appreciation to the artist. I wouldn't feel complete if I didn't own it.. my cd collection is my life.. (and rekids..)

[thr339z]

Good topic

 

 

heres my anarchist perspective,,,

 

 

 

 

 

In the early to mid 90's I was a fiend fer imports, I used to forrege and search the world for stuff and usually pay an exorbedent amount for "that lost and illusive ministry day recordings cd " that know one had or ninja choons shit that was 50 bux a cd, Or the signed picture disk of dead kennedys "2 drunk to fuck" or a box set with all the halos (nine inch nails) or boot legs of the klf live in london 1990,,,

but this was before the internet and when message boards and mail order was king,,

yea man I was a crazed collector... but this all changed wen my flat got broken into and my 600 import rare cds and promos and boot legs got stolen,

 

then I discovered cd burners and the internet, and from then up untill recently (like about 5 months ago)

I had only bought 1 cd in 11 years all the rest was illegal...

 

 

HOWEVER I have never played or sold illegal shit out in public and nor would I , Im a pirate for personal use, but Im an advocate of piracy in all forms (in the realms of mainstream culture) and not nz culture

IE I say burn rip and disperse, all tv all movies all mainstream music .

But this is where the paradox kicks in for me

its like this when I think of drum and bass and electronic music in general

 

1)its primarily made up by samples of other beats loops vocals what ever,

2), I dont belive that the arrangement of a choon can be totally copyrighted, as the elements (9 times out of ten) are made up from other existing things there fore the end person who made said song cant really claim that as their IP solely and exclusively

3) copyright is a mechanism that is created by the capitalist media elite to take ownership of a cultural product that in essence is "released on the market" and what does the word "release" means? it means to set free and let it go and be its own entity,

4) in essence the term "copy right" is arbiotary and devalued in our media age where everything is freely available, The term copyright implies ownership of a released work that exists and is openly available in the public domain, where it is open for interpretation use and abuse and recontruction to ANYONE.

7) Copyleft is a more viable implication of ownership of IP, as copyleft leans towards the creator being the owner of the work who will or wil not sanction the use by a second party or third party which would only happin after commuincation is entered into in writing with the auteur,

 

 

the lines of the old skool have been destroyed since the advent of the internet and sample technology, basically my position is, culture is there to be used, the autuear has limited controll of their work unless they encode their stuff so it cant be copied and sell a song with screeds of legal documents to prevent all manners of copyright infringment, which is capitalistic and morally/asthetically inefficiant , cos art music and film are the way that we can evolve as humans and once in public domain every one owns it...

Edited June 12, 2007 by Guest

[Turbo Custard]

Also - i don't think that downloading tv series is pirating. How is it different - other than the means of delivery - than me sitting down in the 80's and taping episodes of a program played freely on air on a good old VHS ??

 

Answer -- its not.

[Grind]

Also - i don't think that downloading tv series is pirating. How is it different - other than the means of delivery - than me sitting down in the 80's and taping episodes of a program played freely on air on a good old VHS ??

 

Answer -- its not.

 

Well- not that I really want to defend TV networks (I watch pirated TV episodes myself) but taping episodes in the '80s was pirating.. And the reason it IS theft is because you are denying the TV networks a portion of their audience, and when their viewership ratings goes down, their advertising revenue goes down, and so on and so forth..

 

I'm going off topic but the business & delivery structure of "television" as we know it is going to be completely different in about 5 years time.. it's already pretty much there but think of a cross between Tivo & Youtube. Real-time broadcasting, better TV ads and loads more product placement and endorsements..

 

The major TV networks like HBO, Fox, CNN etc are all just part of the same large conglomerates who own ALL media, and are some of the most powerful people in the world. No matter what shifts happen within consumption they're not going down anytime soon, and I don't feel bad ripping them off one bit. TVNZ are cunts too, no sympathy for them whatsoever.. half the reason people in NZ torrent so much is because their schedule is so far behind!

 

Like pretty much everyone else, I'd rather watch shit on my terms & without advertising

 

:comp:

[mike]

without advertising? Hell - most programs have so much product placement in them, that there shouldn't be a need for ads.

[Grind]

As for stealing music from small, INDEPENDANT music labels & producers.. (eg. drum'n'bass) that's a completely different ball-game.

 

You can't compare it to downloading major network TV eps of films.. d&b is underground and there's basically NO money to be made in it as it is, show some respect to the producers putting in the hard yards and support the scene

 

I don't get pissed off if the average punter wants to download a few tunes, but the moment someone steps up to Serato or CD-Js they should also be able to step up and say they've paid for their music! (not that anyone who downloads d&b illegally has ever been booked for a decent gig as far as i know) It's funniest when you hear of aspiring producers doing it too, what a joke- wtf!

 

I strongly recommend that the average punter with no aspirations to be a DJ downloads mixes as most of them are free & legal, and much better to listen to than individual tracks. Also, support the mix/album/compilation CD market as well. Most CDs cost less than the entry fee to most international DJs

 

:smile_icon_21:

[Grind]

without advertising? Hell - most programs have so much product placement in them, that there shouldn't be a need for ads.

 

Expect product placement to increase at least three-fold within the next 5 years

[mike]

so does that mean less or no ads? yeah right - just more revenue for the producers =/

[Grind]

Well that's the thing - they're always gonna find ways to make money.

 

Consumers are more clued up and cynical of advertising than they ever have been, but the old white exec men up top will merely adapt to the changing face of consumption.

 

Before long there'll be no ad blocks placed within TV shows I reckon, but there may be banners or something like that, who knows

[mike]

well it could work if the ads wernt intrusive. Imagine trying to watch a subtitled film with those rolling over the top

[LyraKil]

i once was a hard core pirate but now cooled off on the music sceen i buy a lot of shit now but a few years ago i would ahve never thought of it. the factor that changed me was becoming an mc and finding out how fucking hard it is to make the stuff and how much time goes into it hence why i changed my ways. ill still go on little looting and pliage runs every now and then when i come home wasted and dont care about morral obligations which i hold within my self. if record companies didnt give us the fucking short end of the stick for so many years im sure many people would change their ways.

when it comes to videos and series its fair game they make so much of advertising so i personaly dont give a fuck. nothing wrong with a lil leachy mc steal every now and again.

[dr_weazel]

Used to pirate heaps, but nowdays I usually buy it. Mostly because it used to be impossible to find somewhere to download single tracks legally, and it was really really easy to find illegal copies on places like Napster. These days with places like beatport or mp3stor it's too easy to find and download legal copies of tracks for basically fuck-all $$, to justify downloading illegal stuff.

[mike]

that and its 320k. I rip mixes (not cd ones) all the time - but thats a different argument.

[Pakage]

or ninja choons shit that was 50 bux a cd

lol, same bro, i used to order really hard to find black metal from scandinavia and shit and goddam that stuff was expensive. like $50-$65 per CD and it was only an 8 track most of the time.. and then my shit got stole outta my car and the insurance company only compensated me about $20 a CD.... which meant i couldnt even be bothered to replace 1 out of 3 of my rare CD's that propbably wouldnt even be able to be ordered in again anyway and just bought some other crap and ended up downloading a bunch.

 

3) copyright is a mechanism that is created by the capitalist media elite to take ownership of a cultural product that in essence is "released on the market" and what does the word "release" means? it means to set free and let it go and be its own entity

 

I know your an anarchist, fuck tha man and all that, but i still believe that people deserve to be paid for their work, even if they release it into the public domain. Its still something that you put your blood, sweat, tears and soul into and deserves recognition. That said, the respect and feeling of personal fulfillment/accomplishment achieved is better than money, but still, cash is sweet and the deserving should be rewarded.. too bad money doesnt work on karma! when people make millions for making thoughtless shite it pisses me off to no end.. This is art, and masterpieces should be treated appropriately.. as should mass produced shit typhoons.

 

You can't compare it to downloading major network TV eps of films.. d&b is underground and there's basically NO money to be made in it as it is, show some respect to the producers putting in the hard yards and support the scene

 

good points raised grind. i like your style.

 

definately need to reward those with the integrity to commit themselves to something that is known to be notoriously unprofitable.

 

big ups the 'doin it for the luv' crew

[joachim]

TVNZ are cunts too, no sympathy for them whatsoever.. half the reason people in NZ torrent so much is because their schedule is so far behind!

There are a few networks in New Zealand. Why have you signaled one out for abuse when every station in behind the statse in terms of programming?

 

Usually when exchanges are being made there are two parties, so with respect to negotiations who do you think is making you wait? The company that want's it on your screens as soon as possible or the company selling it and trying to get as much as they can?

[joachim]

Well- not that I really want to defend TV networks (I watch pirated TV episodes myself) but taping episodes in the '80s was pirating.. And the reason it IS theft is because you are denying the TV networks a portion of their audience, and when their viewership ratings goes down, their advertising revenue goes down, and so on and so forth..

 

Like pretty much everyone else, I'd rather watch shit on my terms & without advertising

 

Ok so you've already stated half my argument from the very similar bassdrop thread but I would like to reitterate that tv is indeed not free. You are paying for it with the fact that you present yourself as a member of the potential audience for adds and your payment is the time spent watching them.

As I said on bassdrop if you wish to pay for tv without using your time as currency get out your wallet and buy a dvd.

 

As for stealing music from small, INDEPENDANT music labels & producers.. (eg. drum'n'bass) that's a completely different ball-game.

 

You can't compare it to downloading major network TV eps of films.. d&b is underground and there's basically NO money to be made in it as it is, show some respect to the producers putting in the hard yards and support the scene

 

Like of said before shall we have a look at everyones gross income before deciding if we can rob them or shall we just call it theft?

 

New Zealand musicians have noted how they get mistaken for being rich just because they share the airspace with rich american musicians and the public make the association that making music = you must be rich.

 

Is there the possibilty that you are doing that with the tv game? I have seen/ been involved/ heard about tv that is made with virtually no money and will not make that much either.

 

To further throw the cat amoungst the pigeons I hypocritically do stream old off air tv programmes as I see a difference in downloading and streaming. It's just dl's that I really frown upon and will ingore my faults for the sake of arguing on the net.

Also waiting for the stream is so taxing that I would rather watch it on tv ads and all or eventually buy the dvd.

[Pakage]

bit riled up there jo?

 

rightly so, as your the only person in that industry that posts on these boards that i know of so your their only line of defence. and good points too about purchasing the dvd vs paying for the program by being present for ads, nice comparison.

 

and re:

 

waiting for the stream is so taxing

 

www.xnet.co.nz + www.tv-links.co.uk = no waiting for my streams to load

Edited June 13, 2007 by Guest

[mike]

entire series dvds ftw

[joachim]

bit riled up there jo?

 

rightly so, as your the only person in that industry that posts on these boards that i know of so your their only line of defence. and good points too about purchasing the dvd vs paying for the program by being present for ads, nice comparison.

 

and re:

 

waiting for the stream is so taxing

 

www.xnet.co.nz + www.tv-links.co.uk = no waiting for my streams to load

 

Yea it would be like a muso discovering bunch of film guys talking about how they always buy dvds but fuck those rich musicians

 

Oh and as for the streams. My internet = loss.

Maybe seeing as someone started on my job I should name my isp to start the stirring here lol

[skono]

Edited June 14, 2007 by Guest

[joachim]

The post formally known as mad beef nukka.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Guest