seekah Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Police raid houses across Aotearoa under anti-terrorism legislation, at least a dozen arrests. Early this morning there were simultaneous raids across the North Island, in Auckland, Whakatane, Wellington, Ruatoki, and Hamilton. Later in the morning, Police came to at least four houses in Christchurch. Seventeen people have been arrested so far, and reports are that up to 60 are being sought for questioning. The raids were under the Suppression Of Terrorism Act and the Firearms Act. They have been targetted at people involved in the Tino Rangatiratanga, Peace and Environmental movements. This feature will be updated as more information comes to hand - please post information in the comments if you have it. Stay safe everyone! TV3 footage of the raid on 128, the Wellington activist community centre, can be viewed at www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/2303.html . The search warrant enacted on A Space Inside, an Auckland activist social centre, can be viewed at img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0710/c98ad99d9861928dc3ce.jpeg Support the arrestees! Auckland - There will be a meeting today (Monday) at 5:30pm at the Unite offices on Queen St to plan a response. Christchurch - There will be a meeting today (Monday) at 6:30pm at the Otautahi Social Centre (206 Barbadoes St) to discuss what has happened and plan for solidarity with the arrestees. There has been a rally in support called for tomorrow (Tuesday) in Cathedral Square at 5pm. Melbourne - There will be a demonstration in support of the arrestees tomorrow (Tuesday) at the Consulate-General of New Zealand, Suite 2, North Level 3 350 Collins Street at 11am. Updates 1:43pm - The people arrested in Wellington will apparently appear in court at 2:15pm, and word is that cops will be opposing bail. It is not yet known what charges have been laid. Tame Iti will face arms charges in the Rotorua District Court this afternoon. 3:13pm - The four Wellington arrestees are still waiting to be heard in court, but we have recieved information that they are being charged with possession of firearms and ammunition at some point in the past. 3:52pm - It is now being reported that there have been around 20 arrests, including 10 in Auckland, 4 in Wellington and 2 in Rotorua. 4:19pm - From the corporate media: The operation ``will probably be going on for a couple of days yet,'' Jane Archibald, a police spokeswoman based in Wellington. It is also being reported that over 300 police officers were involved nationwide. 5:08pm - Just recieved word that the four Wellington arrestees have been denied bail, and will be back in court on Wednesday. No word yet on the arrestees in the other centres. 5:26pm - All four Wellington arrestees have recieved name suppression. 6:34pm - Reports are that 17 people were arrested in total today. In Auckland, there were apparently only 6 arrests (not 10 as reported earlier), 5 of whom have name supression. -taken from indymedia NZ http://indymedia.org.nz This is weird man. Why are they targeting peace activists? Apparently the peace activists were found with machetes. The sort you use to cut weeds in your garden. Support and solidarity to those arrested. This is not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thr339z Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 This is shameful and only the beginning expect more and frequent occasions of this in the future, the state are running scared they know absolutely their time has come. I for one will be applying my black mask expect more and more crack downs on our freedom in the future and always remember that technically drum and bass and other music IE house trance hardhouse hip hop rock and roll electro are and can be deemed as subversive and can also be accused of funding terrorist activities, for example in the usa right now peoples are getting arrested for wearing baggy pants due to "connatations of gang involvement" also people have been detained under their anti terrorism laws for "posessing glow sticks and vicks vapor rub inhalents as they are classed as "drug paraphenalia" also cast your mind back to the uk in the late 80s when thatcher outlawed "raves" and repetitive beats as "subversive and anti social " past times in lieu of subversive activities. we live in a brave new world , there is no excuse to be apathetic , its seriously time to rip the cotten wool from your eyes and jump to the left side of the fence. or you can sit on that fence and silently watch as what we love gets stripped away from us piece by piece this is a press release from the american green party in 2003 this is still happining in the USA but only worse ,,, who remembers the images of police in full riot gear smashing a rave where evol intent were playing in utah? this could well happen here... Greens Urge Repeal of 'Rave Act' Legislation. THE GREEN PARTY OF THE UNITED STATES Wednesday, April 23, 2003 Contacts: Nancy Allen, Media Coordinator, 207-326-4576, nallen@acadia.net Scott McLarty, Media Coordinator, 202-518-5624, scottmclarty@yahoo.com Warning of potential for abuse by prosecutors and suppression of artistic expression, Greens call attached legislation targeting raves an example of anti-drug hysteria. WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Greens responded with outrage to the news that the U.S. Senate passed the Illicit Drug Anti-Proliferation Act (the "Rave Act"), which targets concert promoters, event organizers, nightclub owners, and the owners of arenas, stadiums, hotels, and motels for drug charges if any illegal drugs were used on the premises -- even if they made a good faith effort to prevent drug use. The Rave Act legislation was passed after Sen. Joe Biden (D.-Del.) attached it to an unrelated piece of legislation, the "Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to end the Exploitation of Children Today Act of 2003" or PROTECT Act to establish a system of measures in the event of child abduction. The amendment was inserted quickly, with no public discussion. President Bush is expected to sign it shortly. "By threatening concert promoters and venue owners with drug charges even if they had nothing to do with the sale or use of illegal drugs, the Rave Act will suppress youth culture, including popular and non-mainstream music and art," said Kirstin Marr, media coordinator for the Colorado Green Party. "Sen. Biden has made himself the equivalent of former Sen. Jesse Helms (R.-N.C.), whose attacks on art were motivated by anti-sex hysteria. Biden's legislated witchhunt is motivated by anti-drug hysteria, but it's no less pernicious. It shows that Democrats can have as little regard as Republicans for freedom of expression." Opponents of the Rave Act, including the Drug Policy Alliance, note that the bill had not passed any committees in the House or Senate this year. Greens have urged repeal of current anti-drug laws and an end to the 'war on drugs' in light of civil liberties, the need for addiction to be addressed through medical attention rather than incarceration, and the harm that anti-drug laws have caused through the perpetuation of a violent drug trade. "The Rave Act shows how important it is for young people -- especially college and high school students -- to become politically aware and involved, and to register to vote," said newly elected Racine, Wisconsin, Alderperson Pete Karas, who led the campaign against a crackdown on local raves in southeast Wisconsin. "But it also shows how the established parties, Democrats as well as Republicans, are often hostile to them, and equally hostile to artists and small business owners. The Rave Act places them at the mercy of Attorney General John Ashcroft and overzealous prosecutors. We urge campus groups -- including Campus Greens -- and other youth organizations to speak out and demand repeal of the Rave Act, before innocent people get locked up, concert halls and clubs go dark, and artists get driven out of businesses." MORE INFORMATION The Green Party of the United States http://www.gp.org Below Is a snap shot into what was going on in the uk in 1989 at this time Margeret Thatcher a Neo conservative was in power . along with freezing civil liberties employing racist imergration policies , allowing cops to search and size property on grounds of "terrorism" amd implimenting the poll tax which caused many a strike and protest of the working classes she also outlawed dance music which was a new and vibrent and subversive and political thing where people where dancing and thinking against the implied modes of "baby boomer " logic...and material capitalism this may seem old and non essentail to many people now but remember that this is our history if your into electronic music of any kind , and be mindful that history has a way of repeating itself and now in NZ it seems it is about to A Timeline History of Rave - 1989 January to April - Genesis / Sunset parties. "The Fight Goes On", "Against All Odds", "Hedonism" & "Strength to Strength". Inspired by what he had see at RiP, Joe Wieczorek starts holding illegal warehouse parties in various east end locations (Shacklewell Lane, Essex Road, Homerton & Ferry Lane to name a few). Labrynth is Born. Around the same time, Andy Swallow and Tony Wilson having already run a successful after-hours club at Mile End, Hackney, starts Echo's in a small club at the foot of Bow flyover, East London. Friday's are Tony Wilson's "Adrenaline" while Saturdays sees Andy Swallow's "Pasha". With links to ICF (West Ham United's football hooligans) the club soon becomes a notorious gangland venue. Jan 28th - RiP move to "The Dungeons" at Leabridge Road, Leytonstone. Feb 25th - Biology hold their first party in a film studio in Battersea. April - Rat Pack run Trip City at the Elephant & Castle Labrynth hold a party in a disused warehouse at Silverton Way, Canning Town. An East-end gang try to take over the security but Joe refuses them. This leads to 3 men sneaking into the warehouse and attacking people with machete's. Joe is threatened at gun point and decided to get out of the warehouse game. Labrynth move to a licensed venue, The Four Aces Club in Dalton. The scene takes a new direction as the parties move from inner city clubs and warehouses to the countryside. Soon there are Sunrise, Biology (Jarvis Sandy), Energy (Quintin "TinTin" Chambers & Jeremy Taylor), Back to the Future (Dave Roberts, also a partner in Sunrise), Weekend World & World Dance (Anton Le Pirate). All competing to be bigger and better than the last. They all hold some immense illegal parties with 1000's of Kwatts of sound, lasers & fun fairs attended by sometimes tens of thousands people cladded out in Baggy tops, smileys, bandanas & kickers. Acid House becomes a phrase reserved for the newspapers as the parties themselves begin to be called Rave's. The term Raver is born ) The location of these events was a closely guarded secret up until an hour or so before the start. Meeting points would be made available through flyers and pirate radio stations (Sunrise, Centre Force, Fantasy). Mobile phones were still widely regarded as Yuppy toys but thanks to BT's messaging service they became an ideal way to co-ordinate people to different meeting points (Motorway service stations usually) and eventually the venue itself. It generally turned into a game of "follow the car in front" until you find a party. By keeping the venue secret like this they could get everyone on the move heading for the party or in the wrong direction if needed. The police have no option but to follow. So the end effect is that 1000's of people can descend on one location in a matter of minutes. Once a party's goes past a certain size there is, in reality very little the police can do. Breakbeats start to appear in rave tunes. East end Hip Hop due, Shut Up & Dance are surprised by their 5,6,7,8 single becoming an anthem as they have never been to a rave. Tommy Smith and Tony Creft start holding illegal warehouse parties around Blackburn April 29th – Back to the future, finding that their lined up venue has been discovered end up holding a party in a cattle silo, still half full of animal feed! May 1st - Centre Force becomes the first 24/7 pirate acid house station. The station is set up with help from Andy Swallow and other people connected to Echo's. Police 'intelligence' and general rumours suggest that Centreforce (like Echo's) is run by the ICF. "There were a lot of myths going round that we were involved in taking peoples doors, taking over the clubs demanding 25% and all that. Well, I don't know where the money went because I never saw any." - Andy Swallow May 20th - Sunrise 5000:Once in a blue moon held in aircraft hanger at Santa Pod race track. On arriving at the site in the early evening to set up, Sunrise find there is no electricity and no toilets. Their only option is to take a big risk with a diesel generator running dodgy wiring next to a pile of old newsprint. May 27th– Energy hold their first major party, located in Westway film studios Featuring 5 rooms, 12 dj's and a level of production not seen before including one room done out as Greek temple and the other like the film Bladerunner.. Summer (date/flyers anyone?) -Anthony & Chris Donnelly stage Joy at Stand Lees Farm, Rochdale. June 7th - The Sun Runs the front page headline "Spaced Out!" alongside a photo from the Sunrise party. 10th June – Biology hold a party in a field near Elstree Studios, London. 16th -18th June - Hypnosis set up the first dance tent in on of the car parks at Glastonbury. June 24th – Sunrise’s Midsummer Nights Dream at White Waltham airstrip, Berkshire is attended by over 11000 people. The Sun newspaper runs the headline “Ecstacy Airport†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekah Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 wow thanks bro thats a really interesting read. keep watch on scoop and indymedia, more details are coming out. protest is not terrorism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thr339z Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 sall good bro << Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 At the end of the day what are you going to do??? You can't fight the police, they're "The Biggest Gang in New Zealand!!!" That's a quote directly from a high ranking police officer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 HIstory of rave... nicce =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_weazel Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 protest is not terrorism! No, but conducting paramilitary-style training camps in the middle of the bush with the intention of carrying out violent attacks against the government and police is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 is it really though? TERRORISM?! i'd say it's a number of things, including; illegal, rebellion, activism come to armed action, even a bit seditionary(look it up). but its not terrorism bro... theres a pretty fine line here, but these guys who've been targeted are not out to cause actual "public terror". they're making a fucking stand... watch your balance on that fence ay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teret Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 protest is not terrorism! No, but conducting paramilitary-style training camps in the middle of the bush with the intention of carrying out violent attacks against the government and police is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_weazel Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 is it really though? TERRORISM?! i'd say it's a number of things, including; illegal, rebellion, activism come to armed action, even a bit seditionary(look it up). but its not terrorism bro... theres a pretty fine line here, but these guys who've been targeted are not out to cause actual "public terror". they're making a fucking stand... watch your balance on that fence ay Planning assasinations isn't terrorism? Ok... I'm not looking to get into any sort of argument over this, so I'll only say that I think a few people here are going WAYYYYY over the top without actually knowing any of the facts yet, and YES, I most definitley DO think that if what the cops are saying is true, it's "terrorism" or close enough to it to warrant these raids... as long as the police have the evidence to back up their claims, and it seems as though they do. (but of course, time will tell) I dont see a problem with sitting on the fence at least until the facts come out, rather than jumping to anarchist/conspiracy-theorist conclusions without any evidence. I'll eventually get off the fence on one side or the other, but not until I've got some facts. All I'm saying is it's FAR too early to be making any negative judgment of the police/govt on this particular issue. And dude, I'm NO fan of the police, OR the govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 yeah, i hear ya... i'm just pretty anti facist at the mo, after a recent run-in with the so-called-law. as long as my little bubble of a world is ok and i can still go snowboarding/surfing/shopping/and drive cars then why the fuck am i even worrying. its not like theyre gonna put RFID microchips in us or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 hey, speaking of snowboarding...any plans to get back down before closing day?(the 28th oct). i'm definately gonna be there for that weekend,zeb's playing a 21st at the POWERHOUSE flat, but was hoping to get a slide in sometime before that. check your pm's bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_weazel Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 hey, speaking of snowboarding...any plans to get back down before closing day?(the 28th oct). i'm definately gonna be there for that weekend,zeb's playing a 21st at the POWERHOUSE flat, but was hoping to get a slide in sometime before that. check your pm's bro Yea, might take the day off on Friday and get an extra-long weekend down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grind Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Planning assasinations isn't terrorism? Ok... I'm not looking to get into any sort of argument over this, so I'll only say that I think a few people here are going WAYYYYY over the top without actually knowing any of the facts yet, and YES, I most definitley DO think that if what the cops are saying is true, it's "terrorism" or close enough to it to warrant these raids... as long as the police have the evidence to back up their claims, and it seems as though they do. (but of course, time will tell) I dont see a problem with sitting on the fence at least until the facts come out, rather than jumping to anarchist/conspiracy-theorist conclusions without any evidence. I'll eventually get off the fence on one side or the other, but not until I've got some facts. All I'm saying is it's FAR too early to be making any negative judgment of the police/govt on this particular issue. And dude, I'm NO fan of the police, OR the govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakage Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Revealed: Hunters' vital tip-off before raids An encounter between two hunters and a group of armed men in military camouflage is part of the background to yesterday's police raids. The frightened hunters reported their experience to police after they returned to the Auckland region from their Urewera Ranges trip three months ago. In nationwide police raids yesterday, 17 people were arrested on firearms charges, with the possibility that more serious charges may be laid under anti-terrorism laws. Among those charged was the veteran Tuhoe activist Tame Iti. The hunters went into the Ureweras, inland from Taneatua near Whakatane, and encountered the group, which seemed to be training in commando-style manoeuvres. The Herald has been told the group took a threatening attitude to the intruders. The hunters decided retreat was their best option, and went back to Taneatua. Days later, they related their scary bush experience to an acquaintance in a town to the south of Auckland and later to the police. Officers were already investigating the activities of a group of extremists conducting military-style training in the Bay of Plenty wilderness when the two young hunters reported meeting the group of about 15, mostly Maori. Police last night refused to discuss whether the group was planning to target anyone in particular. But it is understood a specific threat was recently made against Prime Minister Helen Clark. Asked whether her security had been stepped up, Helen Clark said she was not aware of that happening. "I'm usually accompanied by diplomatic protection squad officers, and nothing has changed that I'm aware of," she said. It is understood the people under investigation had been attending military-style training camps in the Ureweras for months. Police are believed to have suspected that some of the instructors at the remote camps had Army or police backgrounds and were experienced in handling weapons. Police investigations indicate some members of the Tuhoe tribe, who point out their ancestors never signed the Treaty of Waitangi, have been involved. Seventeen people were arrested yesterday in Whakatane, Ruatoki, Hamilton, Rotorua, Wellington and Auckland in an operation involving 300 police officers and the closing of airspace in the Bay of Plenty. Police inquiries including those by the anti-terrorist unit focused on a core group of about 20, but up to 40 could be involved. Conversations were bugged, phones tapped, text messages intercepted and suspects secretly videoed. Tame Iti and four Wellington "peace activists" were among those who appeared in court yesterday on firearms charges. 2nd page of story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzp Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Wata joke . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thr339z Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 (edited) planning to assasinate is warrented for the raids. I concide that... but I dont see that sitting on the fence in any issue is a good thing.. It symbolises the effect that capitalism and the mass media has on you. "here watch this eat this buy this, dont think its good not to have another thought implanted in your mind by us " Ok if the issue is correct and tame iti and his cohorts were planning an assasination well thats fucked , especially since mama helen is a modertately left wing priminster and far better than some smug tory rightest fuck, but then again tame iti does not represent my ideology (and yes I have raised this argument with him face to face and he is basically a racist , and that is also some thing that I can NEVER get next to) I see in some of these posts a grandiose attachment to " apathy? why? what the fuck do u have to gain from not caring what the fuck do u have to gain by getting shafted by the masters , by low wages by the media by the state ,,,? I hear calls about conspiracy theorist anarchists , Im sorry you couldnt be further from my subjective ideological truth and this is a contridiction in terms , traditionally conspiracy theorists are of teh right... alone paranoid and deminished, I am of the firm left I am NOT alone I am NOT paranoid and i am NOT deminished , In fact I would direct that title to your self with your apathy and and eyes wide shut mentality. I would strongly urge to not listen to me , yes thats right,, dont listen to me but instead think as a human a new zealander. and do some research create a dialoge with in your self with heavy applicatiosn of theory.. and take a step out side of your implied reality and look beyond your narrow minded position and realise we live in a nation that is fucked low wages rising crime lack of nationally controlled entities and a future thats fucking grim... now ask your self is this what you want for us for you , your family your children aor their future children now ask are you happy in slavery? mark my words ,,, shits gonna get a lot worse , before it gets better? and when u retort "theres nothing we can do" well thats a sad cop out as it takes a army of millions to hold a nation back but as I sed ,,, earlier create your own subjective and question everything cos more than likely everthing you know up to this point is a lie... there is a new future and we can attain it Edited October 15, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_weazel Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 planning to assasinate is warrented for the raids. I concide that... but I dont see that sitting on the fence in any issue is a good thing.. It symbolises the effect that capitalism and the mass media has on you. "here watch this eat this buy this, dont think its good not to have another thought implaned in your mind by us " Ok if the issue is correct and tame iti and his cohorts were planning an assasination well thats fucked , especially since mam helen is a modertately left wing priminster a nd far better than some smug tory rightest fuck, but then again tame iti does not represent my ideology (and yes I have raised this argument with him face to face and he is basically a racist , and that is also some thing that I can NEVER get next to) I see in some of these posts a grandiose attachment to " apathy? why? what the fuck do u have to gain from not caring what the fuck do u have to gain by getting shafted by the masters , by low wages by the media by the state ,,,? I hear calls about conspiracy theorist anarchists , Im sorry you couldnt be further from my subjective ideological truth and this is a contridiction in terms , traditionally conspiracy theorists are of teh right... alone paranoid and deminshed, I am of the firm left I am NOT alone I am NOT paranoid and i am NOT deminished , In fact I would direct that title to your self with your apathy and and eyes wide shuit mentality. I would strongly urge to not listen to me , yes thats right,, dont listen to me but instead think as a human a new zealander. and do some reserach create a dialoge with in your self with heavy applicatiosn of theory.. and take a step out side of your implied reality and look beyond your narrow minded position and realise we live in a nation that is fucked low wages rising crime lack of nationally controlled entities and a future thats fucking grim... now ask yiur self is this what you wantm for our your , your family your children aor their future children now ask are you happy in slavery? mark my words ,,, shits gonna get a lot worse , before it gets better? and when u retort "theres nothing we can do" welll thats a sad cop out as it takes a army of millions to hold a nation back but as I sed ,,, earlier create your own subjective and question everything cos more than likely everthing you know up to this point is a lie... there is a new future and we can attain it I think that you're completely missing the point about "sitting on the fence". It's not "apathy" or being a puppet of the media or whatever, it's about waiting till you actually have some clear-cut facts before going off on some sort of anarchistic neo-socialist tangent, ranting about the evils of the overbearing "big brother" govt and the "evil" police. You're making some pretty wildly fantastical assumptions based on some pretty sketchy, super-early reports of what's happening. I dont think anyone is saying that you should sit on the fence indefinitely. EDIT: I'm not saying that you're not entitled to your opinions about the Govt or police (which, to a some extent I actually happen to think are very valid, and I may even agree with you on one or two points), but it seems they're not really related at all to the subject at hand, which is a bunch of nutters with guns running round in the Ureweras planning assasinations. I mean, I might as well hijack this thread to tell you about how much I hate rugby, it would be the same principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknik Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 As much as I think Project ECHELON is fucking abhorrent, and as much as I see this 'Suppression Of Terror' bizness about to affect us all a LOT more than 'just' this one isolated incident ... Bottom line, Tame Iti is a dick. Who seriously gives a flying fuck about what happens to that guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teret Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 . Bottom line, Tame Iti is a dick. Who seriously gives a flying fuck about what happens to that guy? Truer words were never spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thr339z Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 planning to assasinate is warrented for the raids. I concide that... but I dont see that sitting on the fence in any issue is a good thing.. It symbolises the effect that capitalism and the mass media has on you. "here watch this eat this buy this, dont think its good not to have another thought implaned in your mind by us " Ok if the issue is correct and tame iti and his cohorts were planning an assasination well thats fucked , especially since mam helen is a modertately left wing priminster a nd far better than some smug tory rightest fuck, but then again tame iti does not represent my ideology (and yes I have raised this argument with him face to face and he is basically a racist , and that is also some thing that I can NEVER get next to) I see in some of these posts a grandiose attachment to " apathy? why? what the fuck do u have to gain from not caring what the fuck do u have to gain by getting shafted by the masters , by low wages by the media by the state ,,,? I hear calls about conspiracy theorist anarchists , Im sorry you couldnt be further from my subjective ideological truth and this is a contridiction in terms , traditionally conspiracy theorists are of teh right... alone paranoid and deminshed, I am of the firm left I am NOT alone I am NOT paranoid and i am NOT deminished , In fact I would direct that title to your self with your apathy and and eyes wide shuit mentality. I would strongly urge to not listen to me , yes thats right,, dont listen to me but instead think as a human a new zealander. and do some reserach create a dialoge with in your self with heavy applicatiosn of theory.. and take a step out side of your implied reality and look beyond your narrow minded position and realise we live in a nation that is fucked low wages rising crime lack of nationally controlled entities and a future thats fucking grim... now ask yiur self is this what you wantm for our your , your family your children aor their future children now ask are you happy in slavery? mark my words ,,, shits gonna get a lot worse , before it gets better? and when u retort "theres nothing we can do" welll thats a sad cop out as it takes a army of millions to hold a nation back but as I sed ,,, earlier create your own subjective and question everything cos more than likely everthing you know up to this point is a lie... there is a new future and we can attain it I think that you're completely missing the point about "sitting on the fence". It's not "apathy" or being a puppet of the media or whatever, it's about waiting till you actually have some clear-cut facts before going off on some sort of anarchistic neo-socialist tangent, ranting about the evils of the overbearing "big brother" govt and the "evil" police. You're making some pretty wildly fantastical assumptions based on some pretty sketchy, super-early reports of what's happening. I dont think anyone is saying that you should sit on the fence indefinitely. EDIT: I'm not saying that you're not entitled to your opinions about the Govt or police, but it seems they're not really related at all to the subject at hand, which is a bunch of nutters with guns running round in the Ureweras planning assasinations. I mean, I might as well hijack this thread to tell you about how much I hate rugby, it would be the same principle. i certainly am not ona wildly fantastical assumptions ... I have seen the stae crush first hand many times, and felt its jack boot against my skull.. this I know from my subjective, the reality of the issue is YES the police have the evidenec and yes they acted duely I dont disagree with that and the ideology of the group involved is so far from mine it is not funny I just see a real and clear danger of this and these issues escalating , its not being paranoid its called being a social realist. this example the raids etc is only a precurser to what could and will happen with more frequency against more peoples who choose to dissent... and right now not enough of us do... I have been detained for 3 days without charge and had my civil liberties stripped from me and had all manner of torture perpertrated against me and had cops bust in my cell at 4 in the morning in full riot gear and take me to the bush and told to strip at gun point and beaten and told that If i didnt release information I would be killed and no one would ever know, I have seen my "SIS file" and I have been tagged many times as a subversuive,,, so my concern is based on fact not far flung arm chair observation I see the realism from a first hand point of view and all this that happined was PRE 9/11 I would say that my points are relative and absolutely relate to the issue,, wouldnt u? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknik Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 its not being paranoid its called being a social realist. this example the raids etc is only a precurser to what could and will happen with more frequency against more peoples who choose to dissent... YES. Nicely put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekah Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 obviously we don't know all the facts yet, and probably will never know the full story. a training camp in the bush is quite fucked up, i agree, but i think using this as an excuse to raid the homes of activists and arrest them under firearms charges, which can easily turn into terrorist charges, seems a little too convenient. i know the people in auckland who were raided, and i know for a fact that whilst they all are extremely passionate about their causes, they would never use violence against people to achieve their goals. at the moment, the only link between these groups and tama itis bush revolutionaries is that they were arrested on the same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakage Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I have been detained for 3 days without charge and had my civil liberties stripped from me and had all manner of torture perpertrated against me and had cops bust in my cell at 4 in the morning in full riot gear and take me to the bush and told to strip at gun point and beaten and told that If i didnt release information I would be killed and no one would ever know, thats pretty fuckin grim cuz.. how the hell did you end up in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thr339z Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I have been detained for 3 days without charge and had my civil liberties stripped from me and had all manner of torture perpertrated against me and had cops bust in my cell at 4 in the morning in full riot gear and take me to the bush and told to strip at gun point and beaten and told that If i didnt release information I would be killed and no one would ever know, thats pretty fuckin grim cuz.. how the hell did you end up in that situation? I will explain off line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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