Scratch Live/Vinyl

[phonetics]

Hey all, how’s it?

 

I was in Auckland last weekend (cheers for a wicked one Cluedo ) and I saw the Scratch Live thing being used for the first time, which is all pretty neat stuff. I was thinking about it on my long-ass drive home and was wondering what this means for vinyl. You guys have probably already had this debate, but I was just wondering what everyone thought about it as I’m new to this Scratch Live thing.

 

My main concern is the existence of vinyl. Whilst there are obvious advantages with the device, aren’t we phasing out the whole vinyl production/retail aspect of our industry? Will the wide-scale use of the MP3-based mixing device’s make vinyl and the associated retail/production cease to exist? What wider effects will this have on our industry as larger amounts of people migrate towards purchasing MP3’s direct off internet sites and playing their own tunes made on their computers?

 

Personally, I’m a “vinyl-all-the-wayâ€

[zzzp]

Either or, if you can be fuked plugging in a laptop n mucking around with rca's everytime you play out then go hard. If clubs had a scratch interface that would make it far more appealing. Until then, ill stick with vinyl.

[joachim]

I'm also a vinyl all the way guy but I'm open to new tech as well. As long as I'm settled in ak I'll stick with wax but a Serato setup would kick arse when I go traveling.

Mind you I don't think I'll have the spare cash to buy one of those before I travel

[Dold]

I just bought Serato a few days ago.. was a long tough decission..

[mike]

i plead with anyone who is buying Serato to actually pay for their 320's. You can get an entire collection for what I spend in a month on vinyl (it's a lot) so if I catch you downloading mpfrees and playing them I will hunt you down and... yeah

[Merge]

okay a lot of you may say disagree with this statement but its my god honest opinion..

 

Vinyl sounds better, looks a shitload cooler, doesnt really depreciate and gives u a fine visual representation of the track (distinguishable grooves).

 

__________I will always collect vinyl______________________________

 

Even though i have recently got my hands on scratchlive, i will only really use this for mp3 releases that will not be getting a vinyl release, and most importantly for playing my own production (when i start making tunes)

Its also fun to play around with multigenre mixes. it certainly is a good thing to have for parties and mucking around with mates, but i dont see myself taking scratchlive along to gigs at all... if it came to the point where i needed to play mp3s out, itd just be CD-Js all the way..

[Makky2]

Even though i have recently got my hands on scratchlive, i will only really use this for mp3 releases that will not be getting a vinyl release, and most importantly for playing my own production (when i start making tunes)

Its also fun to play around with multigenre mixes. it certainly is a good thing to have for parties and mucking around with mates, but i dont see myself taking scratchlive along to gigs at all... if it came to the point where i needed to play mp3s out, itd just be CD-Js all the way..

 

but what about when you become a superstar dj and start touring around the world?

you will make yourself more attractive to overseas promoters cos you can more easily get around not having a work visa if you are using something like serato. customs will be more suss if you have a rekkid bag or cd wallets.

[mike]

Scratch live for multigenre = WIN!

 

Vinyl holds some value I agree, looking cooler is perception... Though in saying that...

 

 

This says it all re Laptop DJ's - It does look like your trying to check your emails in the middle of a gig. Least with Serato your using vinyl techniques. CDJ's, bobbing your head looking through a crate is cooler than checking your cds while they are placed on the free turntable IMO.

 

The sound thing... I've seen proper soundboys argue for and against on other forums... I think its more a feeling than actual sound.

[Merge]

hahaha nice. yea didnt think of that makky... it totally slipped my mind.

[mike]

you can more easily get around not having a work visa if you are using something like serato. customs will be more suss if you have a rekkid bag or cd wallets.

 

*cough* Mindscape *splutter*

 

Promoters could just do the paperwork and get work visas etc. If it's a money thing, there are plenty of ways around that cause you just say your playing for free and they are paying the airfares. Superstar DJ's should be doing their taxes anyway... Whole other topic.

 

Oh - and for those who are interested

 

here and here pretty much explain what needs to be done. Not really that hard, and it doesn't sound like it costs much/anything. 10 days prior notice, a few forms and I am guessing all you have to have when you come into the country is a flyer with your name on it, some proof of accomodation or transaction showing you've been paid and your in. Customs from memory can't touch the money if you've been paid overseas cause it gets dealt with at the other end.

 

As for your tunes, I don't think they would give a fuck if you've gone through all the hassle to get the visa.... Don't even want to think about doing a CARNET for vinyl

Edited April 14, 2008 by Guest

[Merge]

The sound thing... I've seen proper soundboys argue for and against on other forums... I think its more a feeling than actual sound.

 

yea im sure there are people out there far better qualified to tell me if there actually IS a distinguishable difference, but to me i fully think it does actually sound thicker, warmer.. it may just be dodgy mp3s ive heard but i seem to be able to hear a rather artificial, digital quality in the tunes. (and no shit... i know mike is about to state thats because they ARE digital but u know what i mean..)

[mike]

The sound thing... I've seen proper soundboys argue for and against on other forums... I think its more a feeling than actual sound.

but to me i fully think it does actually sound thicker, warmer..

 

Agree completely.

[Teknik]

Playing an electric guitar or the drums looks way cooler than DJing in any form anyway, so we're all losers really.

 

[joachim]

Playing an electric guitar or the drums looks way cooler than DJing in any form anyway, so we're all losers really.

 

 

Away with your reality check foul demon!but what about the part where I cup my headphone with one hand and move a record with the other hand?

[Phil O]

Stop making me cut and paste to wordpad to read your posts Joe

 

The sound of vinyl has been done on Bassdrop if anyones interested:

http://www.bassdrop.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16055&start=0

 

Best Post:

 

Vinyl is by its nature imperfect. In order to be satisfactorily cut to wax a track must be both lowpassed (removing very high frequencies) and highpassed (removing very low frequencies). For this reason vinyl will never have the accurate bass or high response of a CD. Also take into consideration different needles, condition of the record and the fact you're amplifying a signal measured in millivolts up to line level (which is about the quickest way possible to introduce noise) and you end up with a very inaccurate way to record music.

Why does vinyl have that warm bassy sound then? Two reasons. The first is the fact that the hindered highend response and high-mid spike in vinyl places more emphasis on the bass/low mid frequencies that are present. Secondly the imperfect nature of a record groove creates a lot of harmonic distortion. Kinda like how a distorted guitar sounds thick and gooey and awesome compared to clean amped guitar, this makes vinyl sound cool, or rather warm. All this happens of course at the cost of accuracy, and makes the whole "should i record at 24/96 for my tracks going on wax' argument pretty laughable.

I will never argue that vinyl or cd have a more or less 'nice' sound. If you prefer the sound of vinyl despite the formats shortcomings, thats reason enough. The bottom line is all of this is done to make something good to listen to! However if you think vinyl recreates the original master better than CD, you are wrong in all the ways explained above. For the same reasons CD will always represent both bass and high frequencies better, and all that bullshit about vinyl having more/better/deeper subbass and more accurate highend is subjective kahkah. It may sound nicer to your ears, but vinyl can not go as low or high and taints every sound it touches.

Here's one more reason: Unless you're living in Nashville and recording entirely to tape, your vinyl record would have been a WAV or AIFF or god help us MP3 file at one point... usually including the master. So if digital had any shortcomings they'd be on your vinyl record too, any signal chain is only as good as its weakest link.

[mike]

Playing an electric guitar or the drums looks way cooler than DJing in any form anyway, so we're all losers really.

 

 

Away with your reality check foul demon!but what about the part where I cup my headphone with one hand and move a record with the other hand?

 

Meh - The likes of Qbert on the decks looks just as good as a gutarist/drummer - But I agree its harder to not look like a twat (guilty )

[Dold]

Its definately all about looking your very most coolest and not bringing the best music you can to the table

[paulg]

Vinyl gives me better vibes. That is all.

 

 

Stop making me cut and paste to wordpad to read your posts Joe

 

copy paste to the address bar.

[format]

Playing an electric guitar or the drums looks way cooler than DJing in any form anyway, so we're all losers really.

 

 

:script:

[perceptualChaos]

Phil's quote is right on the money... vinyl is definitely inferior in terms of fidelity to a lossless format (e.g. wav, flac) on CD or computer. I have used CD's, Serato, and vinyl extensively and have to say that the high end is noticeably less crisp on vinyl and unless your needles are in perfect shape the whole spectrum just sounds a lot more mucky. Some songs may sound better cause the mastering engineer did a better job but that's the engineers fault and it's not generally the case.

 

On top of the lower fidelity - vinyl takes up more space, costs more dinero, takes more time/effort to get hold of, doesn't have the option of only buying one song, degrades in sound quality with time/usage, and is more sensitive to vibration (e.g. needle skipping). With regards to 'seeing' the song - in a club it's hard to see the grooves on the vinyl anyway cause it's usually too dark but if you're using Serato it has a nice detailed illuminated waveform view of the song on the screen. CDJ 1000's have something similar although it's not nearly as good as the one on Serato.

 

I can't be fucked with setting up Serato and I don't like the idea of windows shitting itself in the middle of my set so I use CDJ's instead.

 

Aside from that, the only thing vinyl really has going for it vs Serato (with a lossless format) is the nostalgia

[Dold]

Well I just finished my first purchase of tunes off beatport, now with my new setup and everything, and I have to say it's a nice feeling sitting on my bed buying a stack of new tunes for next to nothing.. with no record stores down these ways of course.. i guess it has advantages and disadvantages. defianetly enjoying the immediate at this moment...

[paulg]

I've heard and read rumors that you don't get the full version of some of the tracks online, is there any truth to that?

[Dold]

Not for me right now.. Damn Leon Switch & Kryptic minds make some on key tunes../derail - back on topic.

[perceptualChaos]

I've heard and read rumors that you don't get the full version of some of the tracks online, is there any truth to that?

 

not very often but sometimes if the CD version is cut down and they put the CD version online there are cut down versions of tunes... this was the case with some of 'Era of Diversion' I think but they put the vinyl version up a week later so it was all good anyway.

[Phil O]

Phil's quote is right on the money... vinyl is definitely inferior in terms of fidelity to a lossless format

 

Yep, but the quote also states:

 

Why does vinyl have that warm bassy sound then? Two reasons. The first is the fact that the hindered highend response and high-mid spike in vinyl places more emphasis on the bass/low mid frequencies that are present. Secondly the imperfect nature of a record groove creates a lot of harmonic distortion.

 

Although the sound is coloured, that does not necessarily make it inferior. Whilst Cds/Mp3s more faithfully reproduce digital sound, it is important to remember that everything made digitally is an artificial reproduction of actual sound. So vinyl adds something that can never be perfectly recreated by digital software.

 

Its just like in The Matrix: The real world is the real world(musical instruments), whilst the Matrix is a digital imitation of it (Cds, Computer Programs etc). Vinyl is a hybrid of real and artificial sound, whilst Cds/Mp3s are completely artificial.