Government to allow private ownership of water

[Hakomi]

Even if it was scientifically proven beyond any doubt that flouride posed no potential health risks (which it won't ever be, 'cos it's simply not true) it is still extremely unethical to forcibly medicate the entire population of a region just for the sake of the small percentage of children who end up with fucked teeth because their negligent parents never taught them about dental hygiene.

 

Statistically negligible improvements in dental health or forced ingestion of neurotoxins for all?

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

 

Exactly, they are force medicating people without their consent. The whole concept is actually unbelieveable.

[Known One]

I know you like posting videos doc. I just found a quality one. Please promise me you will watch all three parts. Don't be put off buy your own pre conceived ideas.

 

 

 

 

Especially the third part its really relevant to you.

 

 

Those Videos don't seem to acknowledge the distinction between Fluorine and Fluorides...

[Dr Awesome]

lame, i was just getting ready to crank out some popcorn and you go get all respectful and apologise Hbomb..

 

Sorry bra, can't be bothered fighting today.

[Guest]

just when i thought it was safe to get back in the water...(no pun intended).

 

It is nice to see some intelligent/informed debate around this issue though.

And as I did earlier, we shouldn't forget to laugh at our own convictions sometimes too.

 

anyway, all in all, this issue seems to have skirted around the main and original point (we really should leave that trick to the herald) about government handing over our basic rights of supply to the private sector.

 

this one statement sums it up, and is actually where MY own opinion truly lies ;

 

"The predominant reason for Europe's rejection is the belief that public drinking water is not the appropriate vehicle with which to deliver medication to a population."

[Ignition]

Even if it was scientifically proven beyond any doubt that flouride posed no potential health risks (which it won't ever be, 'cos it's simply not true) it is still extremely unethical to forcibly medicate the entire population of a region just for the sake of the small percentage of children who end up with fucked teeth because their negligent parents never taught them about dental hygiene.

 

Statistically negligible improvements in dental health or forced ingestion of neurotoxins for all?

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

 

Exactly, they are force medicating people without their consent. The whole concept is actually unbelieveable.

 

...like when they were talking about putting folate in bread because pregnant ladies don't get enough of it or some shit.. wt?F!?

[Pakage]

IMO this is the most relevant video for Doc to watch:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoN53QpGXaQ

 

Its an emotional journey into the psyche of woman effected by over fluoridization in a secret military experiment in the 1960s.

 

absolutely must watch imo. lots of really reputable information on the subject.

 

anyone bother to check this out? moving stuff really. discuss.

[mike]

I will also strip Hamish of his doctorate. I don't think he is really that awesome.

 

Voting - solid policy!

[Hakomi]

 

Those Videos don't seem to acknowledge the distinction between Fluorine and Fluorides...

 

What side of the fence do you sit?

[Known One]

Well I would agree that the water supply is not something I want people to fuck with... less is more in that regard. Same goes for Folate in bread, GE food and processed food. Regardless of the 'Science' for or against, you can't go wrong by keeping food as natural/simple/fresh as possible.

 

We don't understand the human body enough to make assertions about the health effects of a lot of things yet. Fluoride occurring naturally in water/food does put my mind at ease.

 

I don't doubt that there are probably positive dental reasons for having Fluoride present in your saliva, but I'm open minded about where we get our Fluoride and who's making a buck.

 

Wish I lived in the Witaks so I could just collect some clean rain water... but till then Tap water is just fine.

[Grind]

Even if it was scientifically proven beyond any doubt that flouride posed no potential health risks (which it won't ever be, 'cos it's simply not true) it is still extremely unethical to forcibly medicate the entire population of a region just for the sake of the small percentage of children who end up with fucked teeth because their negligent parents never taught them about dental hygiene.

 

Statistically negligible improvements in dental health or forced ingestion of neurotoxins for all?

 

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

Agree that it's a question of ethics.. but from what I understand the statistics/facts are in favour of fluoridated water having positive effects on dental health, whereas any serious health risks linked to it are more in the "negligible" category?

 

The predominant reason for Europe's rejection is the belief that public drinking water is not the appropriate vehicle with which to deliver medication to a population. Fluoride is not an essential nutrient, which means that no human disease (including dental decay) has ever been linked to a fluoride deficiency.

 

True, that's fair enough, but their reasoning isn't to do with fluoridated actually being "bad" for you though.

[dr_weazel]

So, what you're trying to say is that I should wear a tinfoil mouthguard when I brush my teeth?

[Hakomi]

 

The predominant reason for Europe's rejection is the belief that public drinking water is not the appropriate vehicle with which to deliver medication to a population. Fluoride is not an essential nutrient, which means that no human disease (including dental decay) has ever been linked to a fluoride deficiency.

 

True, that's fair enough, but their reasoning isn't to do with fluoridated actually being "bad" for you though.

 

No their reason is that it doesn't work when ingested.

 

Well yeah whether its bad for you or not is another argument. They have plenty of incomplete tests that will back up their theories, doesn't mean we should just outright believe it right? But the reason these countries stopped was that its proven that flouride that is applied topically (toothpaste) actually improves cavities etc whereas when its ingested in water it does nothing.

[Hakomi]

So, what you're trying to say is that I should wear a tinfoil mouthguard when I brush my teeth?

 

No what im trying to tell you is, fuck off you twat. Why would you bother coming back on this forum.

 

Did you get banned somewhere else. Thats a retorical question by the way.

[Hakomi]

 

We don't understand the human body enough to make assertions about the health effects of a lot of things yet. Fluoride occurring naturally in water/food does put my mind at ease.

 

 

You do realise the flouride they add to water does not occuor naturally.

[Teknik]

But the reason these countries stopped was that its proven that flouride that is applied topically (toothpaste) actually improves cavities etc whereas when its ingested in water it does nothing.

 

 

Which is why flouride tablets also don't work.

[perceptualChaos]

 

We don't understand the human body enough to make assertions about the health effects of a lot of things yet. Fluoride occurring naturally in water/food does put my mind at ease.

 

 

You do realise the flouride they add to water does not occuor naturally.

 

Neither does ketamine

 

[Dr Awesome]

 

We don't understand the human body enough to make assertions about the health effects of a lot of things yet. Fluoride occurring naturally in water/food does put my mind at ease.

 

 

You do realise the flouride they add to water does not occuor naturally.

 

Neither does Regretamine

 

 

[Dold]

 

We don't understand the human body enough to make assertions about the health effects of a lot of things yet. Fluoride occurring naturally in water/food does put my mind at ease.

 

 

You do realise the flouride they add to water does not occuor naturally.

 

Neither does Regretamine

 

 

 

 

 

[Pakage]

 

We don't understand the human body enough to make assertions about the health effects of a lot of things yet. Fluoride occurring naturally in water/food does put my mind at ease.

 

 

You do realise the flouride they add to water does not occuor naturally.

 

Neither does Regretamine

 

 

 

 

 

[Taiko]

 

We don't understand the human body enough to make assertions about the health effects of a lot of things yet. Fluoride occurring naturally in water/food does put my mind at ease.

 

 

You do realise the flouride they add to water does not occuor naturally.

 

Neither does Regretamine

 

 

 

 

 

amidoingthisright?

[perceptualChaos]

Um, I suggest you read some of the research into fluoride that wasn't written by raging hippies.

 

You realise it's present in many countries groundwater anyway?

 

You realise that billions of people drink it every day and yet there are no ill effects?

 

Or is this just some sort of lizzardmandembabylonshallfallconspiracytheory.

Yes I thought so.

 

Right on little buddy, fuck science!

 

http://www.fluoridation.com/brain.htm

 

Compiling a list of all research which is partially in agreement with a hypothesis, and ignoring the research that isn't is hardly science... I'm not saying that any of the research is necessarily not valid, but that's hardly an unbiased review.

 

Anyway, I think the fact that over exposure to fluoride can have negative health effects is relatively well established... but if there was reputable evidence that the < 1ppm trace amounts of fluoride in NZ (citation) have negative health effects on people, then the fluoridation regulations would most likely be reviewed.

 

I don't like the concept of force medicating people via the public drinking water supply either, and I'd rather not have it there... but I'd be more worried about the heavy metals and massive amounts of chlorine in some parts of the country tbh. There's a lot of things that are more likely to cause you health problems than overexposure to fluoride in tap water.

[Known One]

You do realise the flouride they add to water does not occuor naturally.

 

Naw, I didn't realise that they weren't adding Calcium Fluoride. Thanks for pointing that out. The fact that we are not adding the naturally occurring Fluoride salt is pretty fucked imo.

[phonetics]

how much more are we gonna take?

 

[Grind]

The predominant reason for Europe's rejection is the belief that public drinking water is not the appropriate vehicle with which to deliver medication to a population. Fluoride is not an essential nutrient, which means that no human disease (including dental decay) has ever been linked to a fluoride deficiency.

 

True, that's fair enough, but their reasoning isn't to do with fluoridated actually being "bad" for you though.

..the reason these countries stopped was that its proven that flouride that is applied topically (toothpaste) actually improves cavities etc whereas when its ingested in water it does nothing.

 

Well that's not the same reason in your first quote bro? According to the Wiki article it is proven to be effective:

 

Water fluoridation is effective at reducing cavities in both children and adults.[9] Earlier studies showed that water fluoridation led to reductions of 50–60% in childhood cavities; more recent studies show lower reductions (18–40%), likely due to increasing use of fluoride from other sources, notably toothpaste..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation

 

Question for those who are opposed.. do you avoid tap water? Is there a way to purify the fluoride out of it?

[Pakage]

Based on nothing but the following simple observation i think its possible that it has improved cavity protection. All 4 of my grandparents had false teeth, my parents have all their teeth still, but quite a lot of fillings, both myself and my sister have no fillings at all.

 

Obviously its not quite as simple as that as there have been other advancements in dental hygiene which will have contributed to or could in fact be fully responsible for this result.

 

Thoughts?