Madz Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 At what point does graffiti become art? What do you see as being the difference? I've done a little bit of urban art with posters, stencils, stickers, markers, only a tiny bit of can work but. I just interviewed the guy from the council who coordinates graffiti and vandalism control, repair and prevention. I was quite seriously uncomfortable. I felt like such a hypocrite! I think so long as the surface looks better once you're done with it, so long as your main motivation is not to destroy/deface, then it can be classed as art. I think tasteful graff art gives an area a personality, reflecting the taste and style of the people that live there. I'm not a crim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teret Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 I'm not a crim! Ive got a black eye that says otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dold Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 If its a statement or an expression and has been created with some emotion, love or hate, or passion for doing it, it is art. But if your referring to a big WEST SIDE or some some shit, then well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakage Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 almost every form of urban art except tagging i consider not to be criminal! bombing, stenciling, posters etc.. all are a o k.. tagging however, is like a dog spraying its territory.. its not art, although some styles can be really cool, and almost like an urban form of calligraphy, i still wouldnt consider them art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perceptualChaos Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 geez I must have debated the question which is the name of the topic at least 10 times. probably arguing for a different point each time hehe. As for Graffiti - in the (excellent) documentary style wars the "enforcers" say something like its art when you have permission to do it and vandalism when you don't. That's one perspective which is not necessarily wrong per se. Another perspective would be that there's a continuum between shit like this: and shit like this and the plethora of awesomely artistic graff (I could find way better shit than that if tried): another perspective would be that of whoever is doing it, in which case its art if they think they are making art - i.e. expressing themselves by transmitting some sort of meme (Banksy FTW) or just pushing their creative abilities. I think all three perspectives have truth and are generally not compatible - for example someone could paint their name and it looks like shit to me, looks like vandalism to the Fuzz, but the person who did was still making art, they're just not very talented. Maybe in a few years they'll be ripping shit up. I'm a big fan of this perspectivism thing you see. That way, I can always be right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kritical Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Sadly I'm about as artistic as a spastic monkey armed with finger paints so if I were to make my mark on soceities* walls it's end up looking like the first example... * i before e except after c? on that note my mark on society would also contain horrible spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Ive got a black eye that says otherwise Gundamn that's hilarious. I am sorry, however. I'm actually quite sweet. Tagging/illegible scribbling irritates me. It doesn't look nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentient Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 If someone tagged on my fence, I'd want to punch the cunt in the head. If someone bombed on my fence without asking, I'd still want to punch him in the head. For me it's about permission. It's a transgression otherwise. If taggers need practice, they should use something they own. Like paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Awesome Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 it all depends on opionion realy. i may or may not have stenicled various things in various places *ahem1meterlongtankonnorthcotecollegespeacemuralahem* but the thing is about imporvement/destruction. does youre white fence look beter after you have taged "PoS MASSIF" on it? No. However urban "art" takes an otherwise bland/blank canvas and not only expresses an emotion but makes the location look nicer to look at (imporving the asthetics of the whole area). The art should be thought provoking or atleast stimulating as opposed to tagging which is more of a "I was here, this is my patch so back off/look at me i can tag this, arnt i cool" type thing. lots of good work can be found at stencilrevolution.com if you are keen on stenciling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thr339z Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Good thread Madz..! Art... hmmmmm well yes the "against Tagging camp" is correct, I think this too.. HOWEVER: I remember when I first saw "tagging" and I thought it looked excellent... I loved how it was a blend of scribbled shit that no one could understand, I loved the asthetic qualities of it, and then I became obsessed with it (circa 1988 in sydney)... I then was a habitual tagger for years,,, and got my face punched in (quite rightly, I must add) a few times... Whilst I was at uni this subject was bought up in a assignment: I took the For tagging side.. However after researching it fer a while I changed my thesis. and crossed the fence... I think that tagging is a revisionist genetic cultural thing, and I think that it has increased in velocity over the last say 20 years in The USA and at least 13 years oin new zealand due to a few things, and these things need to be highlighted and mentiond. The obvious one, "hip hop" and the rise in popularity in the mainstream circles of culture, now that ones a no brainer innit... then the second reason, In the late 20th centuary and early 21st "we" Increasingly are looseing our place in the world to define our space, As the Corprate Ideology theifs force advertising and corprate meems on us, We inherently have a the burning desire to reclaim space, so combined with hip hop culture and the like we conciously or subconciously seek the need to claim a small pice of our urban landscape as our "own" piece of unbranded human space, rather than the hyper capitalist mind fuck of corprate culture that seeks to sell and remains a facless and highly addictive ideological conditioning tool. I am a great beliver in street art of all kinds, I back that shit more than I do tagging, just cos of the paralell conations of street art against tagging. Ie: the creator of street art asserting their voice in a society turned up on full volume,,, . But tagging although it is a nessercery thing as it helps the cdreative energies flow, is not totally a good thing , but a means to an end result, which is madd graffs... as stencils are to subversive BLF (billboard liberation front) styled attacks on corporate art /advertising. yes thats my 9 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelzzzz Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Sadly I'm about as artistic as a spastic monkey armed with finger paints so if I were to make my mark on soceities* walls it's end up looking like the first example... * i before e except after c? on that note my mark on society would also contain horrible spelling Societies. One of those exceptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess007 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Other peoples property is NOT there for expressing yourselves mofo's I'm waiting for the day I find any fucker that tries to express themselves on my fence, I'll show how colourful his/her face will be!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 does that mean public property is fair-game for taggers? (with the exception of monuments/memorials) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess007 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 does that mean public property is fair-game for taggers? (with the exception of monuments/memorials) Common sense should prevail for this one I should think!!!! Taggers make the world ugly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentient Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 The 'public' and taxpayers are the shareholders in public spaces, and in a Democracy, broad social consensus should translate into political will. Therefore if the general public has a problem with tagging in, or on, public spaces, it will most likely be frowned upon or illegal. For me, tagging is tantamount to pissing on a wall. Bombing is cool (and looks dope) if it is commissioned by bodies such as councils, community groups. Stencil work, I believe, is all good - if permission is given by whoever concerned. Coming back to the core of the thread, I think art is basically anything that expresses human creativity or imagination, but that this should be separate from the question of whether street 'art' should be accepted by the 'public', broadly construed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakage Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 if the council provided more 'approved zones' for bombers to graff on, then we wouldnt need to go and do it somewhere that is 'frowned on'... the only problem with say.. letting all trainstations and factory walls facing train tracks be open game... (although this is ideal, as that is largely wasted space, and if youve ever been overseas, you'd know how awesome it is coming into a city from the airport on a train and seeing a feast of the citys great artists work!) ...is the issue of people getting smoked by passing trains when they take a few paces backwards to admire their latest work. And again.. as always.. the problem that the few always spoil it for the masses.. some dipshit taggers, or really crap bombers would come along and just make a mockery of everything the real street artists are working soo hard towards. FYI, this opinion comes from a seasoned bomber.. and yes.. i have actually resorted to doing bombs on extremely large canvasas at times, somewhat better than walls, in the fact that you can keep it forever.. But have you ever tried to buy a 5m x 2m canvas? its not easy or cheap.. and its not like the $100-$150 odd dollars to buy enough spray paint to do 1 bomb isnt expensive enough as it is... they should turn more apandoned warehouses into graff zones, like they did with the oriental markets!! it would also mean that i can go spend a sunny saturday afternoon flexing my artistic muscles, rather than creeping around at 3am on sunday morning with a beleclava, torch and gloves on! bring this form of art into the light, dont shun us into the darkness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess007 Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Most NZer's are too busy being uptight instead of thinking of ways to make such expressions of art an event. Starting to be more whiney than the english. Need some positive energy in AKL thats for sure! In london there are groups that organise underground street graffitti nites. Basically you find out where you need to go, usually a remote street location, where the area is set up with large pieces of various materials that can be spray painted, all arranged around the place. You can be a spectator and watch these people spray and paint etc all whilst hanging around drinking with ya mates or you can do your own. Place is lit up as it gets darker with candles, lighting of any kind etc and at 10pm, anyone is allowed to grab the pieces of art that has been painted to take home but it has to be announced when you can grab the art not a moment before. SOme artists also leave postcards and business cards etc where you can check out their other work and buy them. Its so cool. I managed to grab a hand ful of post cards done by one graffiti artist which all marvelous work of art. Its usually from 5-10pm so plenty of time to watch the creative juices of the artists and its afree event, with loads of fun, as there wasn't an alcohol or drug ban that we knew of!!! I'm sure there are groups that do do their work within the requirements of the law, then there are fuckers that create ugly shite on walls and fences or other peoples property. Other groups fundraise and create halls for their meets etc, why can't the graffiti artist have an organisation, where by selling some of there art, they can make the mula to fund a hall rental etc etc, or even buy a property to create art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakage Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 the main AK crew that does that kind of thing are of course the disrupt crew! they run the disruptive art gallery on k road, and have ties with illicit and even have their own graff quarterly magazine.. Only thing is that they're quite select and it tends to be a rather hard circle of people to crack into.. understandably tho.. theyre very competent graff artists and my skills for example compared to theirs would be like comparing a pre school finger painting to a da vinci.. but yeah.. more publicly funded events rather than private ones would be good.. then everyone can give it a go regardless of skill level or if your 'down with the clique'.. till then, ill continue to change bland factory walls into pieces of art that i want to share with the public! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robyn Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 the main AK crew that does that kind of thing are of course the disrupt crew! they run the disruptive art gallery on k road, and have ties with illicit and even have their own graff quarterly magazine.. Only thing is that they're quite select and it tends to be a rather hard circle of people to crack into.. understandably tho.. theyre very competent graff artists and my skills for example compared to theirs would be like comparing a pre school finger painting to a da vinci.. Get Pest5 (aka 4higher) stoned and he'll be your buddy forever If only more people with desirable urban canvases (esp commercial properties) that get hit by runty lil taggers on a regular basis would comission real graff artists to do murals then many of these issues would be solved and our city would be more aesthetically pleasing. Don't know many wannabe artists that would dare tag over a reputed artists work. Well not twice anyway... Most of you have seen the ghetto I live in and I personally love the constantly evolving scenery, although I can't say for sure if I'd still like it if I owned it. And just last weekend I did scare the bejesus out of some 12 yr old taggers in my alleyway, but that was really just for sport... Damn kids, get off my lawn!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I only just skimed through this topic but the original question was at what point does grafitti become art and whats the difference. IMO there IS a difference - there is a kind that is mere grafitti and a kind that is superb art - having said that looking back at 80's grafitti that was inspired by hip hop I can see it as art. However I wouldnt call vandalising someones property with bullshit gang names and tagging art. It is ugly and destructive and negative. I am a big fan of urban hip hop art i have a scrap book full of urban hip hop art it is awesome one of my favorite types of art i would like to see more of it around Auckland - It is beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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